Comments On Article: Two Diaries, Emma & Rose

If you would like to share your comments for article Two Diaries, Emma & Rose, this is where to do it! 

Click the Reply To This Topic button below to post yours.

gDonna, thank you so much for sharing the three diaries with us.  I love getting a glimpse of someone's life this way.  I learned so much about my own great grandmother after finding her diaries from the 40's through the 60's and transcribing them for family members for Christmas gifts over the years.  I definitely understand the challenges of trying to decipher someone's writing which was never meant to be read by anyone other than for themselves  and so neatness, spelling and punctuation were not necessarily focused on, as well as the use of abbreviations.  

As an FYI for anyone interested, the C.F. in Rose's diary is Cedar Falls, Iowa.  And I THINK Bishop's Cemetery is in Marengo, Iowa - at least I know that there is one by that name there, although there is another in Lake City, but is further from Waterloo/Cedar Falls.  Anyway, I was definitely excited to know that the new ladies are from the state and possibly an area where I lived for 20+ years.  Thanks again for sharing!  I am so enjoying this new study thus far!  

I find all the Monday washing in the diaries fascinating. I was glad to see Rose didn't try to wash in the sleet and ice on Monday, but then wondered if they kept wearing their dirty clothes because washing wasn't mentioned again until the following Monday. The weather forecasting wasn't as good back then as today's is, but they did have it. Maybe they had so much work to do each day that they had to keep to the rigid schedules to get it all done.

I was able to add a little gardening to my schedule yesterday. The garlic and green onion bed got weeded. All the tops died in the bad freeze, but there's green near the ground waiting to see if it's okay to come out again. :) The only green things that made it through the freeze were the corn salad and spinach. Everything else died back, including all my herbs, which will be missed in my cooking. 

I bought floss today but had to put off paying the newspaper renewal. I'm wondering if I'll need to post large notes on the wall by my desk to remind me to pay the things that don't make it through the week's allowance.  I'm sure in time I'll get better at it after my brain gets trained to remember. 

The meatloaf sandwiches were well received.  :)

Thank you Gayle H for the help understanding the diary:) 

Does anyone know what Emma is referring to on Thursday as a Black Christmas? Does it have to do with the death of a friend? 
Thsnk you.

Grandma Donna wrote, Gayle H, thank you for adding information to the diary information. I give minimal information with the diaries as most of the time this is what I have when I get them and it is interesting to figure out things as we read along.  I enjoy reading along as all of you put the pieces together. I write everything in the diary but I do not tell the last name as my way to protect any possible living distant family. I am not sure why families decide to discard or sell a handwritten diary but I am happy to keep the ones I have in my care and I feel that these ladies would be happy that we are learning from their writing. 

Grandma Donna wrote, Stephanie G,  I can imaging there was a lot of putting off getting to be able to get something else.  It must have been difficult when they really needed something.

Sheri R, I did a research and found that late December 1932 the Flu was very bad in many parts of the country.  It was stated in the paper that it was not as bad in Iowa as it was other places but they did have their share and two deaths from influenza had occurred in Waterloo in late December. Since this was the very beginning of January 1933,  this could have been what Emma was talking about.  Saying this has been a Black Christmas would most likely have been considered Death. 

When Rose speaks of peddling to a town does she mean they rode their bicycles?

Like Rose I am sewing also..nightie and a couple of skirts.

Was given plums so made plum jam this morning.  The plums are a watery type with yellow flesh so I cooked them yesterday then drained off most of the juice (add gelatine and sugar and make jelly) de stoned them and made the jam which became a dark red in colour. 

Grandma Donna wrote,  Karen S,  During this time in history it was common for women to peddle eggs, homemade baked goods, homemade candy and items from the farm.  They also sold their aprons and other homemade items.  Some of them would sell to small shops on regular basis.  Grocery stores were not like our stores today, the first supermarket was not opened until 1930 in the state of Illinois. To purchase groceries would have meant going to the grocery, then the butcher, the dairy in separate locations. Gradually grocery stores were expanding to include more food items. You could also order groceries through catalogue.  It was changing but took awhile.  Most grocery stores had clerks behind the counters and they would take your grocery list and pull your groceries and bring them back to the counter.  Slowly the stores changed to baskets where you could walk around the store and help yourself. In the rural areas it was common to find the old stores with the clerk behind the counter to help take your order into the 1960s, maybe longer.  So now when you find an old grocery ad in the old newspapers, the store has these goods but the store does not look what we have today.  I hope this helps to give a little better mental picture.

Grandma Donna wrote, I would like to add to my comment above.  I was trying to give a condensed version of a subject that much bigger.  I would like to add that there were general stores and general mercantile stores during this time, especially in smaller communities.  These stores were a combination of goods sold. Some groceries, hardware, some textiles and gasoline.  If you study this subject I feel you will find it very interesting.

I remember shopping with my mother to the grocery store before supermarkets here in NZ. There was a room full of flour!! Wheels of cheese. Items wrapped up.in butchers paper. 

Then to the butchers and again meat wrapped in paper  and tied with string.

The fruit and vegetable store was next.  Milk was delivered to the house. Mum brought tokens so they didn't have to put money out in case it was stolen. We had a carrier that held 4 glass pint bottles with tinfoil tops.

This was in the 1960s in New Zealand. A supermarket didn't come to our town until the late 70s and 80s and then it closed.  A local businessman opened one but very expensive and eventually closed too as most people chose to shop at supermarkets that were nationally owned in 2 towns close by.

I dislike supermarkets but often no other choice is available or too expensive. 

Grandma Donna,

I hope it's not "off topic" to bring up a TV show, but I'm curious whether you remember the old show "The Waltons" and if so, what do you think of the way it represents the 1930's?  Your comment above reminded me of Ike Godsey's General Mercantile on that show.  Although the plot lines can be a little silly and unrealistic, I feel like it does a reasonably good job at depicting the basic background of how people lived during that time. 

It is fascinating to look into the history of supermarkets!  According to my research the first supermarket was a Ralph's built in Los Angeles in 1926.  It was 10,000 square feet (which must have seemed huge at that time) and offered meats and produce as well as the usual dry goods and by 1930 also included a bakery.  It was a stand alone store with off street parking.  While there are disputes as to what truly was the first supermarket (Piggly Wiggly, King Kullen, and others also claim to be first), I feel confident in the information about Ralph's and do believe it was a true supermarket even if it wasn't first.  It seems in southern California there were many multi department grocery stores with the choose your own groceries and cash and carry concepts in the 1910s and 1920s, even if they weren't big enough to be considered supermarkets.  In my own town, the first supermarket was built in 1930, and it also had the full variety of items and a person could go through and choose what they wanted rather than asking a clerk for items behind the counter.  I decided to look into this again today because I recalled that this hometown grocery store innovated several advances in supermarkets.  I can shop at this supermarket to this day, although the location has changed.  It is delightful to imagine that in 1932 I could have walked to this market from my home (built in either 1922 or 1926 -- the records aren't clear), which is not quite 3/4 of a mile from my house (the new location is 1 mile away), or I could have taken the Pacific Electric Red Car (street car) from the corner of my street to about half a block away from the store.

There are many places in my town that existed when my house was built and in 1932, including the local library (still in original building and the additions are pre-1932), the outdoor concert amphitheater, the YMCA, and our downtown (the buildings are the same but the businesses have changed). In 1932 I would have been able to observe our post office being built just a few blocks from my home.  The current "new" building my church is in was built in 1904, so it fits into my study quite well.  California isn't known for having a lot of older houses and building like they do in New England, but it is old enough for this study!

Grandma Donna wrote, Hello Tea S, I have always understood that the show the Walton's was based on a true story.  When Charles and I still had tv we would watch the Waltons and enjoy the show very much.  It was during the great depression years and the clothing, their truck and the way they lived I believe was depicted very good with the way it was back then in rural areas of Virginia and many other states.  The clothing that Olivia (the children's mother)and Esther (Grandma Walton) looked to be the actual style dresses worn in the 1930s.  I think it gives a good example of what they would have looked like in our diaries.  Yes, that would have been a good example of what a general mercantile looked like. 

Grandma Donna wrote, Kimberly F, you are correct about Ralphs Grocery, it was being constructed in 1929. This store was considered a Mercantile Establisment with Mediterranian style conforming the architect of Westwood village in a very affluent area in California. The building was 40 x 100 with two floors and a basement.  The owners were very wealthy and Ralphs became a pioneer of self service grocery. 

The one thing to keep in mind since this is a study, I still keep researching to find further facts. I want to caution that these "first things" were only limited to certain areas and most of the country did not have them.  Just like the modern appliances, many homes did not have them. They were being advertised heavily to get people to purchase them but the average family still lived very much the old way. Just like Tea S above mentioning the Walton's, it took many years to modernize as it did to pull electricity throughout the united States, as it did to build highways with pavement.  We have to be careful to not use the first of anything as the example of what everyone had during this time. The average family did not, the wealthy most likely did. It is very confusing when we see something in the 1920s in magazines and newspapers as if it were everywhere. My comment that I said the first supermarket was not opened until 1930, was to show that many people still shopped with clerks behind the counter to pull their groceries. 

The great depression was a very difficult time for many people, many struggled and many did not.  We are here to find out how it really was for the average people.  Now in 2023 is very difficult for many people financially and many are doing okay but if we look closely with great debt just like the 1920's.  What if something did happen suddenly to our economy as it did in the Great Depression?  I hope that we can learn something from this study that would help us if it did occur, it surely would not hurt us.   Grandma Donna

This study is very beneficial for helping people get out of debt and save in order to have security, and it also does another thing. We are experiencing more and more drought and more weather extremes. The weather extremes stress the grid, and we may start losing hydroelectrical capability as soon as next summer, due to drought, which will stress the grid more, since the hydroelectrical power won't be able to be produced. What I am hoping to get from this study is a resilience against loss of resources like water or power. Europe is already experiencing lack. Who's to say we won't too? That cold snap frightened me because all around me were states affected by the extreme weather and no place for me to go if the power went out because all of the roads were bad. My husband was stuck up in N. Dakota waiting out the cold, and I was going to be in big trouble if the grid didn't hold. Thankfully it did. But I had better be ready next time and this study is the way to learn what I need to. :)

Good work on your plum jelly!

Stephanie G

In most homes, washing was done on a certain day of the week because it was an all-day job.  We have to remember that, although electric/automatic washers existed, very few people had them.  Most people either used a big washpot of boiling water and a washboard out in the yard or a wringer washer which most likely was on a back porch that was not enclosed.  Therefore, you could not do washing if the weather was bad.  Most people did not have as many clothes as we do now, and they wore their clothes more than once before washing them.  Unless the clothes are absolutely filthy, they do not have to be washed at every wearing anyway.   I imagine that Rose hung up the house dress she wore on Monday to air out, and then wore it again before washing it.  Most women had a  schedule of which work was done on which day.  Does anyone remember the old rhyme---Wash on Monday, Iron on Tuesday. etc.? It was not a matter of having so much to do; it was a matter of most household chores being more labor intensive and taking longer.

Tea S

Sorry to have rattled on so, everyone.  I don't always have a great deal of time to comment, so I may find myself responding to several things at once.

Frances M But why Monday? Why not be flexible about the day like with other chores? Someone started the Monday washing idea. I wonder what the reason was.

Grandma Donna wrote, Stephanie G, I am glad your power stayed on. I feel when we go through an experience we use that experience as a lesson in being prepared. Our rubber hot water bottles come in handy when the power goes out in the winter using the camp stove to heat the water, which can be used again to reheat the water.  A warm hat, socks, a blanket and a hot water bottle at our feet and hug the other. It is truly important to have them to stay warm. 

Grandma Donna....I have all The Waltons dads. They've always been my go to programmes when I want to leave the modern world we live in today  hahaha.

I enjoyed the earlier series to the later ones.

Grandma Donna, I must apologize as I didn't realize the history study was specifically limited to finding out how it was for average people.  My interest was in living the study as a person who lived in my house in 1932 would have experienced, knowing that it was an upper middle class neighborhood and an overall more affluent town.  I chose to cut my husband's income in half (as if he had been forced to take a payout during the Great Depression), but even so, he would have earned a salary well above average for 1932.  The woman who lived in my house in 1932 very well may had purchased some of those "first things", but now I understand the intention for the study to be only about average people.  My house was built with electricity, city water, and sewer service, and yes, certainly not everyone would have been able to use the electricity, but connection to the city water and sewer would have been non-negotiable.  The person who lived in my house truly could walk to one of the first modern supermarkets (or have taken the street car).  The population of my town in 1930 was over 14,000 people, and as such we would have had more amenities than most rural areas.

As my interest is far more specific, I will step away from the study as it is being conducted here, and set off on my own study so as to not disrupt how you have set it up to be done or offer comments that might lead people off track.  I wish everyone the best of experiences :) 

On one episode if The Waltons they had their electricity removed as they couldn't afford to pay their bill. They used candles until it was restored.  

I use a candle in our parlor in the evenings and before that would turn the overhead light off if we watched TV. The brightness of the light used to make my eyes ache. The candlelight is just lovely so long as you're not doing handwork. 

Hi Stephanie G. I have read past records in England that washing was typically done on a Monday because it was such a long and laborious task so as to have it completed and put away before the end of the week. It apparently took 4 days to have the washing cleaned, dried and ironed by the time they did the prewash soaking etc. Maybe that is why a lot of people carried on the tradition of Monday as washing day. I don't know for sure just a thought.

Thanks Cindy O for your thought. It makes a lot of sense. I did see something about Monday being a good day to wash because there were leftovers to eat from Sunday, so there didn't have to be as much cooking on a busy day. But what you suggest is probably right, especially if the clothes had to dry indoors in the cold and took awhile. I am trying to figure out why people did the things they did back then to see if they would be helpful for me to do. They don't always make sense to me because I don't understand the reasoning behind it. But Monday washing is something for me to keep in mind and is something I could apply to my life because I want to learn how to dry clothes without the dryer, which often means ironing too, and slow drying means more days. I am aiming for getting my work done during the week so I have weekends free. Doing the wash earlier in the week might help me do that.

Frances M Now I understand what you were getting at. :)

Grandma Donna wrote, Hi Stephanie G and all to reply the the question  But why Monday?  having to do about wash day. We all must be curious at some point why did they call Monday wash day? A very good question Stephanie, and Cindy O a good reply you had, I imagine that in England the dampness would make it difficult for laundry to dry as it often is here where I live and often I have to finish drying overnight inside the house. However here it has changed to being more dry at least this past couple of summers.  Karen S, yes I do remember the wash on Monday, Iron on Tuesday  Rhymes, tea towels embroidered with the work the chores on the days of the week. 

I looked back in the newspapers to see if I could find when and why washing was on Monday, so far for when, I have read an article from 1887 and they were calling Monday wash day. Then I read an article in 1915 were Merchants were trying to sway women to shop on Monday but the women were not having it at all.  

They had many reasons for washing on Monday and very interesting their reasons. These are the reasons written. 

Housewives had a mortal dread of being the last in her neighborhood to get her clothes on the line.  She washes on Monday or even Tuesday, most women will say because all members of the family have attired in completely clean outfits on Sunday and have taken the weekly bath.  

Most women would rather get their washing and ironing done up within two days.  She can wash on Monday and Iron the clothes on Tuesday.  If she washes at the end of the week she cannot iron on Sunday and they lie about until Monday. when they have to be sprinkled and prepared for ironing.

The mother does not care to leave her washing or ironing to do until Saturday because on that day she has the children home from school and about under foot, asking to be waited upon and demanding attention. Monday she can start her washing before the children are up, finish it when they are gone and have the clothes back in the clothes basket before they return from school a the close of the day.

Friday and Saturday do not make such good days, women will tell you, because it is on those days the housewife must clean her house in preparation for the Sunday holiday. Whether Blue Monday became Blue Monday because of wash day or whether women adopted Monday as wash day because it was Blue Monday has not been discovered as yet.  They all agree, though, that it is better to do the washing, a menial task that most women dislike, on a blue day than to spoil an otherwise bright and happy day by having to wash the family clothes. 

Monday is known as wash day and it is known as a day of the blues.  Probably the day became recognized as a day of blues because it follows the weekly day of rest and loafing, the day on which the modern family usually gets out and enjoys a bit of pleasure, whether it be a picnic, drive or just stay at home restfulness.  It is hard to get back to the routine of work on Monday Morning. 

What are your thoughts?

Kimberly  F I will miss your comments. I always find them very interesting and you've been very helpful to me personally.  I don't mind you being well-off in the Depression.  My scenario has me coming from well-off parents who speculated too much in the stock market and now can't help financially as much as they did. In fact, later this year, my mother and father will have to sell their big house and move to their summer home. The horrors! ;) This is to explain why I have so many modern, electrical items. Doting parents. I am on city electricity and water/sewer and trash pick-up in my scenario too. 

I am doing one Depression year every two real months, so I am in 1930 for Jan. and Feb. when the effects of the Depression really hadn't taken hold for everyone yet. Things will get bad soon enough and I'll have to learn how to stretch dollars! For now, though, I feel (in my scenario) like so many people did back then in 1930 that everything will return to normal soon and the nation will be back on its path to prosperity. This gives me time to get my schedule in order and get used to following my budget before the real hard stuff starts! 

I hope you'll continue to share!

Letter from Grandma Donna, 

I want everyone to know that "all" are welcome to this study.  It does matter where we are right now in this year of 2023, how we live, or how what our income is now in this year of 2023, these things do not matter for this study. I went to bed prayerful last night and sad after Kimberly F decided to leave our study.

I wrote before the study that this study is about the early 1930's (or further if you want). Stephanie G has a great idea how she is doing each year of the 1930s, every two months, you can read that in the post above.  The great depression is happening during this time. We are looking into this era to find out how the average people made it through these tough times some did not.  Average is just taking from one end of the scale to the other and find average.  We do not want to study just the wealthy, nor just the poor, so we come to average and we study all sides.  Some wealthy became poor and some became more wealthy. Some poor became destitute and found their way through it all but some did not.  This is not meant anything more than this.

This is suppose to be informative, light hearted and non judging. The study is for anyone in any part of the world, the great depression affected the world. This has been a very adjusting kind of week, trying to find our place and how to do the study.  We are learning what things looked like during this time, what things cost, what they had and did not have, how to set a budget, how to start journals.  It has been trying at times here too. Remember we are studying the folks known as The Greatest Generation. 

All of you have been very helpful and talking to one another.  I hope that Kimberly F decides to come back because she belongs in the study with us and being well off or not being well of does not matter with this study. It is adjusted to your own scenario. 

Stephanie G tells about her parents who speculated too much in the stock market, there are all kinds of scenario's and we each have our own so we can adjust our household as we want it.  Some here in the study are just reading along to learn and also to share memories that are very helpful to our study. I was just starting to think of Stephanie G without Kimberly F, as two peas in a pod. 

We do not need to take our personal scenario to disprove someone else and the reason is because everyone and their situation is different. Again, in the 1930's, just because someone had something does not mean others did.  Maybe Emma had a washer and her neighbor did not.  I hope that makes sense. We are the neighbors, all different. Just because it was sold does not meant it was in the home, something very important for this study for the 1930's.  We cannot say that as much today because many live such a generic lifestyle. 

We can give our rugs a good shake out this weekend, Kimberly F, if you are reading, shake out your rug, take a deep breath and come back in. You only posted you were leaving in this thread, we are all a big family and we will have some pie, kuchen or leftover blueberry buckle that was on the extra sweet side. :)  With love, Grandma Donna

Personally I believe this study is not only about the 1930s but also about the real time we live in today with all the hardships we face in relation to soaring food costs, electricity, fuel, high interest rates etc. I have done a lot of reading re Great Depression and I ask myself what can I learn from the GD to help my life today.   Plenty. 

To give an idea of a price here in NZ for food yesterday I looked for a 1 kilo block of Tasty Cheese and it was nearly $23. A cheaper block was nearly $14.  Some buy brand items. I like to get best value for my $.

Grandma Donna wrote, Karen s, food costs are really starting to affect our budgets now, I will be talking about food on my next post. We need to find out what they did in the 1930s about being able to feed the family.  I think it is very important now.  Thank you for your comment. 

Oh so many good comments. I hate to see anyone leave the study due to circumstance. Whether we're in 2023 or 1930, economic hardship affected everyone - it's a matter of relativity. I think we have much to learn from the wealthier families as well as those not so well off.

We have been living a mish mash here in Michigan, sticking to our established parameters of permissible shops (only 1 small grocery store). It's been frustrating because I can't get what I want there but I equate that to availability during the Depression. We had a couple very large vet bills for our fur baby that have made us adjust our budget. Food for the  of bulk of the month will come from the pantry. That's doable because I have been following Grandma Donna for quite some time and have a healthy larder! :)

Stephanie G - meatloaf sandwiches are the best. Did you have them with ketchup? 

Kathryn P We didn't because I'm out of ketchup! I'm out of potatoes too, and have been using brown rice instead. This budgeting is going to take me awhile! I've been trying to follow your permissible shops idea and found the same thing about fewer choices. All these constraints are hard now, but I think we'll get used to them and be pros at getting around them in time. I learned that Clarence Birdseye did indeed sell his frozen foods in 1930, but the only vegetables offered were peas and spinach. Oops! No more frozen broccoli for me! I decided to eat more fresh root vegetables instead, which expands my usual diet. I hope your fur baby is on the mend. Those vet bills can really be high!

Stephanie G 

You're right - it's taking me some time to get used to the idea of not having what I want when I want it!  I'm struggling on a few levels with this but I think the struggle is meaningful and a life lesson that's sorely overdue. Root vegetables are delicious and so perfect for this time of year. Thank you for your kind words about our Wally (Pug). He had surgery on Thursday and had a reaction to the medications. He's on the mend now and doing well!

Well now that I was able to log back in...Had a password issue on my phone and computer that wasn't allowing me to login to comment. If it happens to anyone just reset the password, but make sure to do it on all your devices. :)  I agree with Stephanie G about the root vegetables. We have found this year I think were eating more than we have other years. I got the biggest smile when everyone was talking about The Waltons. We live right by the Waltons and all the places they mention we drive by daily. I will have to post a photo of the house sometime for everyone to see and different areas of interest around it. I especially love the Christmas movie of the Waltons. I really find a lot of things to learn about from watching that one. I remember my parents and grandparents cracking walnuts for baking cakes just like the kids were doing in the movie. 

The laundry has me thinking that I'm sure if they had a baby in the house or a little child that was still being potty trained that there was laundry other days as well, but they were able to get that done more quickly because the main laundry was done. I was thinking of it as how we do our chores. On Monday's we change all the sheets and towels, once a month all the quilts and mattress pads get washed that day too, Tuesday we clean the both the bathrooms, sweep and mop, Monday/Wednesday/Friday we vacuum, Tuesday/Thursday/Saturday we sweep. We dust once a month and vinegar spray all glass items once a month. Other chores are done as needed and we use the cards to remind us of all the other items needing done. I've done it that way and it has helped me for 15 years now to not feel overwhelmed and still allows time for other things that need attention, but the house is still tidy and clean for the most part. 

I find I fall behind can't keep on a regular schedule when life happens, but I deal with it easier knowing some things are already done. We too like Stephanie G spent time at the vets office. Our cat was very very sick with what turned out to be a uti, but was also diagnosed with kidney failure beginning stages. That makes our 3rd cat in 1 year to have that. Our vet said though it's mostly broken hearted as the other 2 passed back to back due to missing each other and this ones missing the other 2. 

I especially find this study so so so helpful. I watch how some of my friends haven't blinked an eye at the prices of things and others have become much more wise. In our area we don't have any cream in the stores amongest many other items. They say because it's rural where we are and we are a small Food Lion. I find I have to travel to Charlottesville area to find items, but when I go the prices are much higher and then there's the gas and time. 

I have made a list of items that I need to purchase sometime this year, but am finding I don't want to purchase the needed items due to sticker shock, but I know that if I wait they will be out of a higher price. Has anyone else felt like that? If so, what did you do and what would you suggest? 

I'm very grateful for this forum and for this blog. It's heaven sent for me. I feel as if I'm able to reconnect with my grandparents homes again.

Plum jam is so yummy. Our Nana and Papa had a satsuma plum and it gave her buckets and buckets each year for 57 years with the one tree. Your jars look fantastic!

The Ralph's is correct! My grandparents lived around the corner from it in Los Angeles and they always shopped there. It's a smaller sized grocery store, but when you go in you could tell that for it's day it was massive.